Becoming a Wealth Circulator - Alok Appadurai

Speaker: 00:00:08

TUCP Intro/Outro: Welcome to The Ultimate Coach Podcast conversations from being inspired by the book The Ultimate Coach, written by Amy Hardison, and Alan Thompson. Join us each week with the intention of expanding your state of being, and your experience will be remarkable. Remember, this is a podcast about be it is a podcast about you. To explore more deeply visit the ultimate Coach book.com. Now, enjoy today's conversation from be

Philippe Bartu: 00:00:50

Welcome back for what I know this is going to be an extraordinary conversation. My guest today is Alok Appadurai. And in the short amount of time I have spoken to him just in our last call, I had goosebumps. I mean, this man is the real deal. There's something really profound in his sharings in the way he share stories. And truly, truly extraordinary. So tune in because I know we're in for such a treat today. Allah, what a joy to have you with us. Thank you for bei ng here.

Alok Appadurai: 00:01:25

Philippe the honor is absolutely mind my brother, since our last conversation, I've been so lit looking forward to this, this time that you and I get to spend together. It's totally

Philippe Bartu: 00:01:35

and you know what I actually saw on your website, it says, I have realized I live for goosebumps. I treasure that feeling when my body erupts from inside responding to the resilience of the human spirit. Whoa. Well, one of the things that really touched me to the core was in 2016, the story you shared with your son Sequoia, would you be willing to start with that as a way to open up our conversation today?

Alok Appadurai: 00:02:07

Sure, with joy, you know, I'd spent about 20 years building impact driven companies, putting everything that I had on the line to make a better world and create a contribution. And that was bigger than myself. And all of a sudden, I found myself without anything. The wheels have fallen off. And I was living in one room studio had no car, no internet connection, all I had was my cell phone. And it was one of those moments where you scratch your head and you go, how did this happen? You know, you live with the right heart, you put everything on the line to do something good in the world. And all of a sudden, the word broke was in my environment. I literally had maxed out every credit card my credit score was in the tubes, I had had to borrow money from friends just to get by I couldn't put food on the table. I barely put food on the table for my son. And it was just one of those moments where, you know, they they jokingly say coming to Jesus right? It kind of that that moment where you get down on your knees and you just you look up to the sky or you look inside yourself or you tune in with source or whatever, whatever that is for you. And you say, you know, what, what am I missing? My son and I we shared a we had one bed. We had one coffee table. And we had one, two cedar loveseat you know, couch sofa and we had one bookshelf. And that was it. I mean, literally, literally that was it.

Philippe Bartu: 00:03:41

What was your son at the time,

Alok Appadurai: 00:03:43

he was about four at the time. Wow. And I put him to sleep at night in our our one bed. You know, he was however small. He was at age four, and my arms would be wrapped around him just soothing him to sleep. And I remember laying there Philip and Ken almost made me cry right now. I remember just looking down at him knowing that, you know, it's his it's not his responsibility to put food on the table to put clothes on his back, to keep a roof over his head to provide medical attention and all those things not his responsibility. It's his daddy's responsibility. And I would cry, you know, as he was sound asleep and I would just see him calm. You know, like an angel laying there. You know, he had no understanding of the realities that were going on in the home that he was living in. And I remember I looked down at him and there was a turning point moment where I said to him, it through my own silent breedings you know, I said Sequoia said your father got us into this jam, and your father is going to create our way out of this jam. And it just, it was it was that line in the sand moment where I think up until that point, I had been functioning as more of a maverick entrepreneur, right? You know, you you know, before you have a child, you know, you can sort of run and gun, you can just put your ideas out there. And if you fall on your face, you know, well, you could sleep on a friend's couch and eat ramen noodles, right? And then, you know, lick your wounds, dust yourself off, get back out into the trenches and go at it again. But once I became a dad, it was like, oh, there isn't just go sleep on a friend's couch. It's like, No, you have a child like, it was it was a new era for me of responsibility. Yeah. So anyway, yeah, that was, that was a super, super challenging time of my life.

Philippe Bartu: 00:05:55

Yet, you really came through that. And you can through that. So, so gracefully, and powerfully. I want to also just slow down here, because there's something in the way you shared that story. I just want to draw something out that that I really want to honor is like, there was a point you said there was like a turning point where you decided to take responsibility for your life for your situation. And just show up for yourself. I was like, This is it? I'm let's, let's dive in right there. Yeah.

Alok Appadurai: 00:06:34

You know, the, when it when it all went down? I had a very natural human response that many, many of we humans are conditioned into, and it went like this. Well, that person screwed me. You know, that person did this. That person did that. Right. And I spent months, you know, marinating in, in the victim hood of what those people did to me.

Philippe Bartu: 00:07:04

Yes. Yeah,let's let's get it. I mean, that's the real, right. That'sso powerful. That's an isn't it at the same time, everyone is going to be like, Yeah, that's right. And they will join you in blaming others, which just creates more rhetoric, more story, more suffering.

Alok Appadurai: 00:07:26

Oh, my God, I had Philip. I had friends who were like, cuz there were some participants that were involved in that time period. And, and on paper, if I simply say kind of my version of what happened. You're right. I mean, like the pitchforks are out. Right. It's like, there they are ready? I can't believe this happened to you. They they did that? Do we need to fly to Tucson and take care of that person? You know, I'd be crazy stuff, right?

Philippe Bartu: 00:07:55

Yeah, yeah, totally, totally. Ah, this is really touching something deep inside me as well that I just want to share this as well, because I feel it's so it's so relevant. I have my version of that story. In 2000, I must have been around 2014. I had just gone I was just going through a divorce three months after being married. Oh, discovering that my wife betrayed me. And she tells me she made a mistake to marry me three months after we got married. Whoa, no, in my in my attempt to cope right with this emotional breakdown. I was just in pain. I was in such pain. I was in shame and humiliation. I went to the seminar as the first volunteer, put myself in front of the room. And this guy looks at me the seminar leader and he says, How much responsibility are you willing to take for this divorce? And I just wanted to say, Screw you. Like, I was pissed. I was offended by the question. I was like, and I said, I am not to blame. She's the one that cheated on me. That's right. And boy, was I banging on that self righteousness and, and he was so graceful. Like, he just looked at me and he said, you know? Oh, I didn't ask you. Who, if you want to blame yourself. I just asked you if you want to take risk. How much responsibility do you want it? And he really slowed it down. He says, you know, responsibility is your ability to respond to the situation. Wow. And I really heard something there. And it was like, Whoa, yes. I want to take 100 response 100% response and and without even thinking about it, I just said 100% and something woke up in me And I said, I'm no longer going to live my life, being a victim and blaming others. And you know what, it's really when I hear your story, it's just like, we all have a version of that story inside. And, and it just touched. Just touch that part of me. And just so thank you for sharing that. That's, that's profound.

Alok Appadurai: 00:10:22

Oh, you know, it literally, I mean, you've you've, you've nailed it, because the, it when people ask me, you know, they can see, okay, I'm running a big company now and have a big team and all these really wonderful outcomes and lots of accolades and all this stuff, right? But if they asked me, like, what was the like, literally the root moment of the turning point, because here's the deal, you know, be feeling like a victim. Sadly, it feels good. Right? So people can very easily succumb to wanting to blame other people and then riling up all the people around us to think the same thing. But for me the literal I can pinpoint it. And I wish I could even say the date. I don't remember the date. But I remember how I felt. I was laying in that one bed, and that we had, and there was a moment where I was praying, talking to source and that moment came with a similar leader seminar leader that yeah, in this case, it was just source God universe or whatever. And it was like, Well, did you create this elope?

Alok Appadurai: 00:11:39

Whoa, that question rocked my whole world, Philippe, because all of a sudden, I had to look at the whole circumstance differently. And then the follow up question was, how did you create all of this? Yeah. And then I started realizing, well, I signed that business partner in Oh, well, I had made those decisions a couple years ago that created some challenges, and oh, well, actually. And then, literally, I laid on my bed, and I was like, Oh, look, you created this entire situation. You created, uh, you made decisions that led to this circumstance. And in that moment, it both was challenging, because it meant releasing the victim narrative can funny. Yeah, confronting it. And realizing how how hard I was gripping onto it, right? gripping onto that victim narrative, because it felt good in some way, shape, or form. Because we'll hold on to anything we want to hold on to, if it feels good, until we can hold on to something that feels better. And so in my case, the moment I was like, Well, wait a second. If I created this entire circumstance, wow, look how powerful I am. And I was like, well, that means I can create my way out. And then the big turning point, the big, big, big, huge. This says I'm not Christian, but I call it the coming to Jesus moment, you know, is I literally asked the universe, I said, I've put in 70 hour weeks, I've put my entire life savings on the line many times over. I've walked away from careers that probably would have put me on track to be a billionaire. By the time I was 30. So what am I missing? I literally said God, source, what memo? Am I missing? And it came to me. It literally the answer was crystal clear. It said, Look, you don't ask for help. Mic drop. Yeah. Success. And then the next sentence that was whispered. Successful people ask for help. Right? What was the old belief I had? Successful people figure it out on their own? They're smarter than us. They're smarter. They somehow Yeah, figure it out on their own. And therefore if I'm not figuring it out on my own, I must be a failure. Whoo. Oh. So now Now Philip, I'm the guy who wherever I go, it's like, if I could build or grow a third arm that was just constantly raised ask it you know, being willing to see I'd have a third arm right there. I'm the guy who's like tell me more what you got. I'm listening. So yeah, this is this is this is the turret you know when when we can fight when we can create eight, our turning point and what you did there. Amazing. 100% I'll take 100% responsibility. Who and by the way, I'm loving this idea of response ability. Thank you for that. I'm, I'm going to be chewing on that for sure.

Philippe Bartu: 00:14:58

Yeah, that really did. something for me, because it separates the whole, the whole distinction responsibility just look different to me from that moment. And it's like, you know, it's like the thing that you don't want. The victim story gives you comfort. And this is what you said until you find something else. And for me, that's something else was 100% ability to respond to a situation as a way of being bap. And I got to see that in over and over again repeating itself. And I tell you, it's living a life where you take 100% responsibility. It is not for the faint hearted.

Alok Appadurai: 00:15:46

Man, it is not we live in a culture of blame shame. Oh, yeah. Judgment, criticism. I mean, everything is about what other folks are doing rather than just going, what am I creating? What am I creating,

Philippe Bartu: 00:16:01

and this is, this is what I love about who you are, what you're up to what you're creating, unlock the alignment that you have. It is rare for me to speak to a man who lives in this level of alignment, authenticity and integrity. And in the short time we spoke, I knew this is who I was speaking to. And I honor that in you. And I really, it gives me so much hope and power for what's possible in the world and the future we have, and we can create.

Alok Appadurai: 00:16:45

You know, I truly believe there's a new breed of man emerging right now awakening, about three or four years ago, I made a declaration to myself that I desired more men around me. Yeah, who are asking these questions, right? Just like, really? What does it actually mean to be a man? And you know, many of us were not handed a great playbook. Many of us were not modeled what this new expression of what it can mean to be a man in the world. And so after I made that declaration, well, three, four years ago, Philip, it has been extraordinary, absolutely extraordinary. I look at the men that have come out of the woodwork in my life. And I'm like, Oh, my God, we just had an event a couple weeks ago. And I looked at the men in that room. And I was like, Can these men get it? Yeah. And what I want to say to everybody out there is that, and I want to thank you for the acknowledgement that you gave me. And as part of that authenticity, what I want to say to everybody is that this is what's called a work in progress. You know, I haven't perfected all of these things. You know, my partner, Caitlin, she would say a bloke is definitely a work in progress, but at least I'm a work in progress. You know, at least I'm, I'm asking some new questions and challenge, some ways of being that we are domesticated into by culture, society, family, religion, all these things. So it may still be a work in progress, Philip, but at least it's a work in progress, man.

Philippe Bartu: 00:18:28

Yeah, well, it's gonna be for everyone, everywhere, where we're, we're constantly this work in progress. But you know what I would love to know more about just just about this idea of you creating something that's making a difference for profit and planet. Yeah, because those are those are two things that I think speak to a lot of people I think there are a lot of people here listening to this or thinking about what the contribution What difference do they want to make? And I think most people would love to create a business that's really helping the planet and making a profit. How can Yeah, like what's the what's the what message do you want to, to share just for? And yeah, what feels relevant, free to share around that?

Alok Appadurai: 00:19:32

I believe that entrepreneurs are the most powerful force for good in the entire world. period, full stop. Entrepreneurs create jobs, livelihood, they solve problems, they're creative. They increase economic prosperity in communities. For me, the entrepreneurs are just, they're there. They can be lightning rods of of epic, positive change in the world. And you know, I was drive Going home from driving, dropping my son Sequoia off this morning and timely for our conversation, I happened to hear an Abraham Hicks quote that said something like, apply bastardize this a little bit. But so my apologies. But it was something like you can never, you can never be poor enough to alleviate poverty. It's your thriving, that can alleviate others suffering. Likewise, you can never be sick enough to alleviate the sickness of someone who is unwell. Right. And so particularly for those of us that I call H S, L's, which is highly sensitive leaders, right? These are the ones who are beginning to go, we're awakening, we know we have a deeper consciousness, we know that we're part of a collective humanity. And we'd like to contribute to that. And we'd like to align that purpose that we came to Earth with, with our livelihood, rather than believing that there has to be a split, right? That's the old domestication, that you kind of got to have a job over here, do a nine to five, work at for 50 years, save up a bunch of money, and then tie that 10% over to a nonprofit or to a church. Right? That's the kind of old paradigm. Yeah, what we're really seeing is the emergence of a new class of leaders and I call them wealth circulators, right? Who are really stepping into their super being and going, Wait a second, can I merge these two pursuits? Can I merge my purpose work and my passion work with my profit work so that I can provide for my household, my community? And beyond? Right? I call that the four circles of contribution. So it's to me, there's the broke martyr entrepreneur, right? Yeah, there's like, I need to suffer alongside everybody else. We're like a badge of honor. And to me, the broke martyr entrepreneur. And this may sound kind of harsh, but will end up being a lot of talk about what they would want to do. The abundant entrepreneur, who was able to create flows of money, energy to and through them, will be able to hire more people, touch more lives, create more creations, whatever the creations are, money energy to be is like, there's not like, oh, I care about money, and I care about impact. It's like, what do you mean? Those two things are? Yeah, there isn't like the for me money. Energy is the lifeblood of impact creation. Right, you can talk oh, I want to create this big event for 10,000 people. Great. Do you have any cash flow for that? Oh, no, I don't. Okay, well, great. Why don't you become someone who could mobilize the cash flow, so that that creation can come into the world? You know, underneath every I want everyone to hear this. Underneath, every single thriving community, company, or country is at least one wealth circulator. At least one every company, every community, every country needs at least one being. One being who's armed with the superpowers of being able to move flows of money, energy through an idea. Without that, it's just an idea. And that's wonderful. We need ideas. But it's the dream I call them dreamer, doers. Right? Right. They don't just dream, a big dream. They become the version of themself, yeah, who will fund the big dream who will cry ate a big dream. So, you know, for me, it's, it's when we can remove the charge and the stigma and the stories about money and simply go, Hmm, I'm a visionary leader, I desire to create a thriving company that has a culture that values humanity, that treats workers and, you know, not as disposable that doesn't view the environment as disposable that doesn't view black people as disposable or brown people or women or anybody as disposable. We change a culture of how business is done. And we create a different future through commerce and compassion. It's not It's not rocket science. It's like let your heart talk. And then be someone who decides what the future of your company is going to create. And take bold, decisive action and and fuel it with with other words owes me levels of courage my brother. Wow. I'll say one more thing, the difference between, you know, I'll say the broke martyr entrepreneur Hmm. Right, who has a big heart who wants to make a difference? Who's probably an empath, who's probably an HSP and highly sensitive person or they've got a big heart, they know that things aren't, aren't the way that they want them. But the difference between that broke martyr entrepreneur and the abundant entrepreneur is the abundant entrepreneur does not say things like, I hope that this will be the I, I wish this would be different. One day, it would be wonderful if the abundant entrepreneur decides, they decide, they decide this is the creation, they decide what's non negotiable. And then they become the version of themself, who will execute the thing into its reality? Period. Full stop.

Philippe Bartu: 00:26:06

Thank you for laying that out. So simply, it has been my experience has I've had a lot of resistance in speaking myself into the world in that language, because of the all the stigma, that the conduct that the culture I was brought up in has around speaking like that, oh, you're arrogant? Oh, who do you think you are? Right? You need to work on your humility, right? So so these are the kinds of things that come up, when we start to really step into our creative power. And I'm so glad you say that because just in in just a few weeks ago, I was speaking to Sarah nanny who's also part of our community and Sarah, and I was sharing something and I noticed how I was like, Yeah, I'm, I was speaking about a possibility using the word hope. And she immediately stopped me. And she was like, yeah, don't say that. And from that moment, whenever I speak about it, I actually say, I'm creating this, as if it's happening already, I am creating this as if this is a done deal, right? It has changed the way I'm showing up in creating what I'm up to. But also, I have also seen that when I can't speak like that, with everyone. Ah, so it's also shown me the power of actually having the sensitivity and the discernment. Who is going to support and champion me and what I'm up to. And I think that's what you're creating that so powerful is having a container of people that really profoundly support each other speak this language and are championing each other.

Alok Appadurai: 00:28:20

The other day, it when we ran our live event, a man that I had been in a men's retreat with who I invited who came he, he didn't say anything, he didn't come to the mic for the first two days. And on the third day, he came to the mic, and I very much leaned in, I want to, I really wanted to hear what his experience was or some version of it. And he said a sentence that I I will never forget. He said, he said to the whole room. He said I he acknowledged the whole room. He said, I have to thank you all. I've been here for three days with all of you thoroughbreds. And he said, I've realized that I've spent my entire life around ponies. And so what and there's nothing wrong with ponies. But if you're not a pony, you want to run with thoroughbreds, right?

Philippe Bartu: 00:29:14

Yeah, and ponies aren't going to look up to thoroughbreds.

Alok Appadurai: 00:29:18

They're gonna be imitated. They're gonna judge I have people yell at me for it. And so you know, I've created a community and a container that's just filled with thoroughbreds and so they don't have to be self conscious about their functioning, if anything, and then I saw a Quentin Tarantino real the other day, it was brilliant. He said, if you are if you want to run the 100 yard dash, only with people that are slower than you. You will win every time and it will feel good. But if you run the 100 yard dash with runners who are dramatically faster than you You are likely to come in last. But your time will definitely be faster than what it would have been if you'd only been running in the other race. So it's not about glorifying speed. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's about encouraging everybody listening to this to be around the people that role, the way that you roll. Can I add one other thing? And I want to dive in the conversation around people saying to you, or to anyone else, who do you think you are? Right? And, and you should be functioning with more humility, right? Yeah. Yeah, years ago, I got on to something that I called my war against humbleness. And this really irked a lot of people, including my partner, Caitlin. But I want to read the definition that comes up if I Google searched the world word humble, having or showing a modest or low estimate of one's own importance. So it actually to be humble means to say I'm less than. Yeah, and I don't advocate that for anybody. Yeah, believe anybody's more than or less than I believe we're all divine expressions of God, equally endowed with the miracle of life. I am that and so are you. So why am I going to create an energy inside myself? That is inherently domesticating me into a perpetual existence of being unworthy, being less than now we can in a universal sense, we can say we are a speck of dust. Right? So I may not have import in a kind of cosmic, bigger sense. And that's where Caitlin comes from, in regards to the humbleness, right. But in my view, I also believe that source universe God infinite wisdom, also created us as unique, beautiful, creative expressions of the Divine that have an important mission and vision that you and you alone were uniquely endowed with coded with in your DNA. So I don't I I believe that you arrogant, right. People confuse confidence with arrogance all the time. They prefer So

Philippe Bartu: 00:32:35

listen, this is music music to my ears, I I did a CTI I was on the CCI leadership program. And we were sat in a room. This was one of those challenging things. They had to select, they had all these attributes of people, and we would get a vote. And they were the top like, five attributes that they see in someone. And when it was my turn, I had 25 people in that room, they would put their put their hand up when they would see that character in me. The number one thing that came out for me was arrogance. And I struggled with that, like I was like, I and it was supposed to be my biggest strength. And the three days, I didn't know what to do with it, because for me that word, there was nothing positive about it. It was it was just loaded in. And I had a friend who somehow came up to me and he said, Hey, you know, I studied Greek. And the word arrogance come from the word Regatta, which means having the courage to say and do what others don't. And I was like, damn, I can own that know that. I can have the courage to say and do and go places where others are not willing to. And actually I really embraced that. And so I'm it was about embracing my arrogance as a strength. Ah, and today, I can own that. So beautiful. What you said was just speaking to my soul, because it was so hard for me dialogue, it was so hard for me to really accept that. And there was so much conditioning around. Yeah, that humility and arrogance was really something that so profound when you when I broke through it. Yeah,

Alok Appadurai: 00:34:44

absolutely. Life changing. I'm thrilled. Yeah. You know, because let's create a distinction in the listeners mind right now. You know, imagine there's 8 billion humans on the planet. Imagine that all 8 billion of them go you're Right, who am I to even think I could contribute to a better world? I mean, let's just imagine that all 8 billion believe it's not my place to create a better world. i We're doomed. That's doomed. I mean, that's dismal. I mean, that's not Yeah. I mean, that's, that's, that would be like, nobody's light is shining. Right? Everybody's going, it's not me. Now imagine another world where everybody goes, I'm equally endowed with the capacity to create a better future for myself, my family and future generations. That's a world I want to live in.

Philippe Bartu: 00:35:40

Yes.

Alok Appadurai: 00:35:43

On what is wrong with that world where everybody, you know, one of the gifts from my partner, Caitlin showed me a photo from our event the other weekend. And she said, she said, This is my favorite photo of you all time. And I'm not going to get into this business specifics. I don't really reveal the INS of what goes on there. But let's just suffice it to say it had to do with the light shining on people. And I said to her, I said, my name means light. But I said, my mission, and what my what my superpower is beyond sales, or marketing, or leadership, or any of the kinds of things that people might knock on my door for. I said, my superpower is that I, I relentlessly see the light inside of other people, and I shine the light on their light, even when they don't quite yet see it. Right? When we step into that, I don't have any desire to be anybody's guru. See, when you release from needing to be better than above, more ascended ethics, what is all that? To me? It's a simply we're all learning. We're all evolving. We're all asking powerful questions. And why don't we be the flame that lights up everybody's flames realizing we can all contribute to a better world for and why don't we all believe that stop becoming jaded and cynical, right? Oh, well, what's it? Is it really good to make a difference? Yes. Because if none of us do it, we are in a dismal, dismal version of humanity, one that I do not participate in.

Philippe Bartu: 00:37:23

So powerful. For those that are listening and just want to get on board know more about you what you're creating what you're up to, or even if they just heard something they want to reach out to you? What's the best way for them to do that?

Alok Appadurai: 00:37:37

Yeah, anybody out there, you can find me on the socials at a local pa there, I go to uplift millions.com and send me a message however you want to do. So I'm open and receiving, I respond to basically every message that I receive. And if I miss it, just give me a little nudge and remind me, Hey, I was knocking on your door. They're

Philippe Bartu: 00:37:58

wonderful. Oh, it's been a it's been really a delight. I love the topics that we cover today. And just before we close, I just want to share something I'd like to ask you a little bit more about this HSP? And what have you. What have you discovered for yourself around being an empath being someone who's highly sensitive?

Alok Appadurai: 00:38:27

Oh, man, first and foremost, it's like, the process to even figure out that that's, like, who you be. And that was a journey for me just to actually kind of go wait a second, there's, there's all these things that for some reason might be a little harder for me than maybe for someone else. Right? It's, you know, I soak in people's energies, I feel people, I'm also a seer. So I see things and the, these realities can be really intense there. They can be energy drains. And so a it's it's just the first step was acknowledging the sensitivity of my heart, acknowledging what I feel, acknowledging that I'm a highly feeling big, particularly as men, many men are not encouraged to celebrate what my friend, colleague and client, Danny Diaz calls big feelings, big emotions. And he's this huge Ultra athlete, right, major Ultra athlete and his emotions, his feelings are the size of the world, he and I tear up, you know, in the middle of conversations all the time, all the time. And so the first point would just be to acknowledge that you have a deep, big, huge, beautiful heart. The second thing from there is to also be able to set up boundaries, right so you, you know how to be able to just not taking that on or ooh, that's I'm not available for that. So you know, and then the the third piece is to not run our businesses as a charity. Because when we are an HSP, we want to help everybody. And that would be that that middle zone, charity to business is is deadly. It's the pathway to failure for so many HSP and empathic entrepreneurs. So the final thing I'll say around it is for any of you listening who fall in this category, you may read up, you know, Empath Survival Guide, there's a lot of texts that you can read up if you if this is you to begin to train and refine, I'm reading sensitive as the new strong, brilliant, brilliant book. So the message I'd love to give to any of the HS I call you HS, ELLs highly sensitive leaders is don't view it as some sort of weakness or kink in the in the armor that you have to work around, or that somehow, because for many of us as empaths, or HSPs, we become targets, because there are people who will feed off us, they will feed off us like, like, you know, a steak dinner. Right. So the thing that I would help you, I would encourage anybody listening, is to understand that it's your superpower. When you can get that being an HSP, or an HSL, or an empath, it actually can be your absolute superpower. So once I learned how to move it from being a thing that makes me it creates a double edged sword, the two sides of the vulnerability coin, an unbound a boundary lists, empathic leader, or HSP. You know, it's there, they're there, they're setting themselves up for a very, very difficult road. The HSP that understand that has boundaries, can now start harnessing that as a superpower. So,

Philippe Bartu: 00:42:13

so simple, one of the things we spoke about in our last call as well, and it's just so something I had, for so long underestimated as the power of boundaries, it's something I've learned from my wife, who is relentless in her boundaries, absolutely relentless. Someone I identify with the HSP that they as a not something that's fixed, but I recognize I have those tendencies and characteristics and side of me, and one of the things I've often just said, you know, yes to and needing approval has been a huge one for me. And it's not even the, it's so so subtle, in what I've just even today as it's 34 degrees today, here in Zurich, and I went for a swim in the lake. And it was a record temperature of 27. It's unusual for the light to be this wall. But I went in there and I actually enjoyed the temperature. And I realized that when the temperature is 23 degrees, I don't enjoy it. But I go in there, not because I want to go in there, I want to go in there because I want inside of me, there is a part of me that just wants to be lovable. And I remember every time I'd go in that water, and it was a little cold, and I would get approval from my parents, and it would be like, Wow, you're a strong kid. Where Yeah, and I notice how, hey, I actually, it's an act of love towards myself. To just dip my feet if I just want to dip my feet and enjoy just the cool water on my feet. It's an act of love to throw myself in the water if I want to have that experience. And I just kind of just blew my mind that I had all my life had been going in the water. So I could be lovable because actually, all I wanted was to be lovable. And it's so it's such a small thing, like just going in the water but it opened my mind to Holy shit, how much where else am I doing this? And I started to really starting to just set boundaries with myself. I don't need to do this and I had always thought of boundaries around other videos actually. No i i I am lovable period and I don't need to prove to myself that I am lovable. I don't need to read this book or that whatever it is and the freedom of just oh I am lovable period

Alok Appadurai: 00:45:19

here period poster yeah you know as a recovering people pleaser over here, right so HSP you kept some trauma from your childhood saw way too much alcoholism and violence you know, you combine all this stuff, get people pleaser, right? Never wanting anybody to be disappointed in me never wanting to upset do my best to make everything okay for everybody all the time, only always, right. And I can share with the audience one of the most freeing boundaries or, or distinctions that I made in my mind, and this one has to do particularly, because the the people pleaser spews into your relationships, its views into how you run your companies, its views into how the policies that you have with your clients, its views into how you manage your team and somebody not being doing their job, right. It's all these AV shows up everywhere. Right? And so one of them with clients that I'll share with your audience that has been game changing for me. And I will say scary, like, I when when I made this leap Phillip, I was like, man, like, what's gonna what what might go down? If I do this, and I'll share with the audience now what that was is, could I make this shift? To no longer worry? If my clients like me? Okay, so that was the first half? Who would I be? If I no longer cared? If my clients like me? The second half of the distinction is, who would I be if I didn't care if my clients liked me? And I committed to loving them no matter what. Oh, my God, I was so terrified. I was like, What am I going to get an opportunity to practice this? What does that look like? Or will I actually, you know, actually do this or when confronted with the moment will I regress the old version of myself. And I had a situation last year at a client retreat, where a client walked up to me and said, I knew they had some issue going on. Now, older Loke would have started worrying. When I started creating all these stories. Why are they disappointed? Why are they upset right now? Oh, am I bad? Am I wrong? Am I unlovable? Right. I mean, that's the full package deal, my brother, right? And, and so the following morning, I saw her and I said to her very calmly, and I was very proud of myself. And this is you guys seeing behind the scenes. This is literally the real of the real. So we're standing in a driveway, there's snow everywhere. It was cold. We were in Telluride, Colorado. And she says to me, I said, Is there anything that you need to say to me? And she looked at me and she says, Yeah, every time I see you in person or on zoom in our group calls, I want to puke. My stomach churns when I'm around you. And I was like, Oh, okay. Now, right here, I want everyone to hear this. This is the moment you know, this distinction that I had kind of considered and was evolving myself into there was if you ever wonder, will the universe give you a little litmus test. And so in that moment, old bloke would have started like, you know, like in the cartoons where the the character start feed starts running really fast and try to fix something get a solution. Oh, look would have been clawing for her to feel better for for anything to alleviate the discomfort that was going on in that moment. Newell Loke was able to just stand calmly with her. Thank her for sharing what she had shared. Ask her Is there anything more that she would like to hear that she would like to share? I validated that I could imagine doesn't feel good to feel that way. Right. And so I didn't need to defend. I didn't act I wasn't worried about whether she actually would leave this conversation liking beat. I really wasn't I was not attached to that. But I was committed to loving her. Yes. And so I looked at her and I said, Thank you so much for sharing all of that. could imagine doesn't feel good to have to think these thoughts. I said, Is it okay if I share my truths about you? And she said, Sure. And I said I actually don't have any of the thoughts that you think I have It's the none of that is in there. I actually love you deeply. And I want to see the best for you. And I see an incredible future for you. And that's all I see when I think about your name. And she was like, Okay, we've gone on to develop an incredible relationship. But it was me honoring the boundary of no longer being a people pleaser. And to do that, I had to stop worrying about whether people liked me, which was not easy as a recovering people pleaser. Not easy as a recovering people pleaser. So again, work in progress. As I said, at the beginning of our time together, I'm not may not be perfect at it. But I've now tasted it. And I'm like, Oh, got it. That's what that's like, fully understood.

Philippe Bartu: 00:50:49

Beautiful example. I'm proud of you, proud of you for being there. And I'm proud of the way that you completely diffused any defensiveness. There was nothing to defend, nothing to protect. There was just loving curiosity that you brought, and the freedom to be that way. That's right, when the people we love most with our clients, whatever life throws at us,

Alok Appadurai: 00:51:19

right? Good work in progress. Sure. So just want to be gentle with all of you. Be gentle, you know, as you gain an awareness or a distinction, it can actually be almost more painful when we replicate the old behavior when we've tasted the distinction. So I really invite everybody be very gentle as you're implementing these these new distinctions into your life. And so you know, if you notice a moment where you weren't the epitome of the new thing that you're trying to be, don't waste any time beating yourself up for not being the epitome of the thing. Just start again.

Philippe Bartu: 00:52:01

What a beautiful place to complete this conversation. Just perfect. Just perfect. I loved every moment with you Allah. I love your energy, the this this enthusiasm you have often you can't see this but when I speak here, like fist pumping in the air, it's it's it's just been there's there's this contagiousness to your enthusiasm. I love the way you speak the way you share the way you count. You've just poured your heart out in this episode with us. What a joy. Thank you so much for sharing so openly and generously with. With all of us today. It's been a real delight.

Alok Appadurai: 00:52:51

It's been my joy, you know, my parting thought will be this. For any of you who have ever felt like your energy is either too much or not enough. Here's here's a part of my sacred covenant. I share it with all of you today. I am the energy that changes the world. And anybody can be that and then your energy is not too much, nor too little. It is simply the energy that changes the world.

Alok Appadurai: 00:53:23

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