Creating an Empathetic World, One Child at a Time - vicki abadesco!

Speaker: 00:00:04

TUCP Intro/Outro: Amy, thank you for tuning in to The Ultimate Coach podcast, a companion to the transformative book The Ultimate coach written by Amy Hardison and Alan D Thompson, each conversation is designed to be a powerful wake up call, reminding us of what's possible for you and your life. So if you're on a journey to expand your state of being, this podcast is for you.

Ipek Williamson: 00:00:37

Welcome to The Ultimate Coach podcast. I'm your host, Ipek Williamson, and today I am thrilled to have a truly remarkable guest, Vicki Abadesco. Vicki is an internationally recognized leader in social emotional learning, anti bullying and empathy based education. With over 30 years of experience, she has empowered countless young people and adults with essential life skills and conflict resolution tools. As the co founder and director of infinite possibilities at soul shop. Vicky is dedicated to building communities grounded in empathy and compassion. Her contributions include co authoring full tools for schools and the empathy balloon, as well as authoring free to be untold stories of going beyond bullying, Vicki's mission is close to my heart as she focuses on nurturing the next generation and creating safe, transformative spaces, I'm so excited to dive into her journey, her work and the impact she is making in the World. Vicki, thank you so much for joining me today.

Vicki Abadesco: 00:02:03

Thank you so much for having me. It's such an honor. Thank you.

Ipek Williamson: 00:02:07

Thank you so Vicki, to start I'd love for our listeners to get to know the heart behind your work. Can you share with us what originally inspired you to dive into the world of social emotional learning and empathy based education.

Vicki Abadesco: 00:02:26

Yeah, great question, and I'll just say that probably for most of the people that are listening watching this like we all had something very personal in our lives that pull us to be passionate about what we do and how we be in the world. And so I could say that I have a history of being in education. I've been in youth work my entire career, so even at 16, I was at the local YMCA running after school programs. I was a camp summer counselor, so I've had a long history of being with young people, and when I started my first job in San Francisco School District, I was a violence prevention and gang prevention specialist, and so I did that for 13 years, and worked with middle school and high school students running the streets and basically hanging out with them, to be in what we call, you know, in their world, to be in their world, and by meeting them where they're at and not to change them, not to try to get them to come to school and get straight A's, but it was a job line to make sure they stayed alive and that they didn't hurt or kill each other, and that was the beginning of my career. And so when I realized that, Oh, all right, these students 1415, 1617, years old, right? Had had already a life of living and communicating in a certain way, and really, I felt my job was to give them other choices. How can I expand their choices of how they could choose to be in the world? And when I started to think about that, I thought, Hmm, where do we learn to make those choices? Where does our mind really start to expand with possibilities, 3245, much younger, much younger. And so I thought, Hmm, what would it be like to take these same same life skills, these same problem solving strategies, and bring them down to an elementary school playground, where we all learn how to work our problems out on that playground. And so that was really the beginning of soul shop. And again, just, you know, I can also then take the story much younger to what it was like for me as a kid, and how there were not adults safe. Adults who really listened to me, and I was just a kid that was scared and afraid and timid and had a lot of different chaos happening in my own home, and didn't really have anybody to talk to about that. So I was really isolated. I felt like I was on the outside of things. I never knew what was going on, and so had a lot of feelings that I didn't know what to do with, and it weren't adults there. And so I could see how as I got older, I really wanted to help my friends. I was that kid that would listen to other people. I was also that kid that would listen when my mom was drunk and passed out on the floor, and I really was able to get like, Oh, this is empathy. So at a very young age, that was a tool that already I was developing. And again, not because it was like, oh, I want to build my empathy skills, but it was just what was there, and it was me and who I was being, even at five or six years old, right? Like, oh, that's part of the essence of who I am. Just to finish what I'm saying here, I you know there, I often say that our greatest wounds are our greatest gifts, and I just feel I'm so grateful to be able to have really taken some of the wounds and trauma of my own childhood and really turn them into a beautiful gift that helps young people to feel seen and heard and loved.

Ipek Williamson: 00:06:37

I cannot imagine a better cause than helping raise beautiful human beings. So you have been, as you said, working in this field for over 30 years. It's a long time, and it's an incredible journey. What has kept you passionate and motivated all these years, especially in a world that sometimes feels divided.

Vicki Abadesco: 00:07:06

That's a great question. Yeah, you know, some people say that if you're an entrepreneur, you do your own thing. I mean that that itself is a spiritual journey, like, right? We do this work, right? You're a coach, a business owner, entrepreneur of any kind. It's like you gotta look at yourself. You have to really look at yourself. And I think when I started the organization, I mean, I didn't know. Mean, I knew how to be with young people. I knew how to write curriculum, I knew how to do program design. I knew a lot about how to be with young people in a particular way, but I didn't know how to run a business, and so I thought, huh, how do you do this? What do I need to look inside myself to be able to believe in myself that I could do this? And so I think one of the things just through time, it is like my own personal growth and my own commitment to myself, and I've seen over and over again when I invest in myself, when I'm willing to be courageous and dig deep and look deep within and heal, transform, grow, learn, that that has an immediate impact on the work that I do, because then it flows to my team and the staff I work with, and then their hearts grow and expand, and they take that into the schools, and then we see that as immediate feedback to how we're being with with young people and what they Get out of being with us. So I feel like, you know, what's the biggest motivator? It's like, oh, because I get that instant feedback. And again, I think anybody who does service work, again, if you're a coach, you work directly with people, whoever you serve. You know, most of us know that, oh, our own investment shows in how we work with the people that we serve.

Ipek Williamson: 00:09:04

Yes, well, I so agree with everything you said, and that's why I find coaching as addictive, because it brings so much of that happiness and joy getting that instant feedback, positive feedback, that you want to experience it again and again. And everything you said is so contagious, like when how you show up, who you are being, is contagious. So if you are on the high end positive that is contagious and and children especially show it reflected back immediately,

Vicki Abadesco: 00:09:48

Absolutely.

Ipek Williamson: 00:09:50

So I have another question that I'm interested in. What you're gonna say about it is the wisdom you see young people bringing to. Table, what do you see like? How surprised yet seeing the that wisdom that they share, they bring, and what do we have to learn from and amplify?

Vicki Abadesco: 00:10:17

Yeah, there's so much wisdom there. And I here's the thing about it is I know for me, growing up, I did not have adults who listened to me. And my guess is, if anybody again who's listening or watching this, maybe the adults in your life also didn't really listen to you. And so what wisdom did we have? That I have as a little kid that got missed. So I think about that every time that we are in rooms with kids, because it's a depth of listening that we want them to feel, and they do, and we want them to get like, Oh, you're listening on a really different level, not like most adults in my life, who usually are like, do this. Go there. Sit down. Sit down. Clara, clean them right, all of these sort of things. And so one of the things that, you know, we hear wisdom every single day, but I think one of the things that sticks out the most for me is we teach a forgiveness tool that's called the cleanup. And the cleanup really starts with an acknowledgement. I know that I I hurt your feelings. I know that I topped behind your back. I know that I cut you in line, right? These are some of the common things, right? And then it's I apologize. And then what can I do to make it right? So this particular language that we are teaching kids, we're giving them this these words as they're in this incredible time in their life where they're building their language, they're building those social and emotional skills. So they get to say, what can I do to make it right with you, which is an acknowledgement that they hurt something, something got messed up in between our friendship or our relationship. So what can I do to make it right with you? And then they get to take a moment and pause to listen as somebody tells them, so both the person who's asking and then the person who is in a position to forgive, they actually get to say, Oh yeah, I need respect. Will you invite me next time? Will you include me in your game? Will you please not talk about me? And then they get to respond with, next time I'll include you. Next time I won't talk about you. Next time, I'll make sure that you are asked to hang out with us. And then the last line is, Will you forgive me? So again, to teach a five year old, a six year old, a 10 year old, to ask somebody else that very basic but powerful question, Will you forgive me? And then for the other person to powerfully be able to respond with a yes or a no. And so this kind of authentic, right way to repair relationship, to ask for forgiveness, right? We're going beyond like, sorry, right? This is like, just say you're sorry, and that's how most of us have learned to apologize for something. And one, we know that person doesn't mean it, and we also know we didn't mean it. And so every day, we get to watch these rooms where not only do we teach this tool, but we watch it happen in action. So kids come up, right? We have this one situation where we were with a group of fifth graders, and we're teaching them the cleanup, and we're also teaching them having a conversation about bullying. And a lot of kids don't realize that they're like, doing some of the bullying behavior, right? Everyone thinks it's always somebody else that's doing that, but it's never us. So when we make a list of like, oh, what's it look like? What's it Sound Like, and they see that list. And so in this one group that we were working with, we had 2/5 grade boys. So one says, Oh, I have a cleanup. I want to do a cleanup with somebody. And so then he points to another boy in the room, and the boy we ask if he wants to come up and. Be part of this cleanup. And he agrees. So you have these two boys that are in front of the whole group now, and the one boy says to the other, I am just learning that I have been bullying you since we were in first grade together, so I acknowledge that I've been bullying you and I apologize. Right? He goes to the steps, what can I do to make it right? And this other boy was so stunned, you know, he had little tears in his eyes, and he's like, Man, you've been calling me that name. You've been teasing me ever since we've been here at school together. I never thought I would hear an apology from you. So then he said, Please don't call me those names anymore. And the other boy also then started to have tears in his eyes, and he just said, I I I just didn't think I was ever that kid. Will you forgive me? Right? So to watch these two boys, right, have this interaction and be able to use language again these words, or, you know, we talk about in this community, the power of our words, right, to have these young boys have that kind of language, all right? So let's fast forward. Who are they? 10 years from that moment, right? 20 years? What happens when they're in high school, college, in their careers and they have a tool like the cleanup, how are they in their relationships, with their own children, with their colleagues, with their friends, to be able to have something like that

Ipek Williamson: 00:16:46

That's so amazing. Really warms my heart. Listening to this story. Thank you for sharing. It's so powerful, and I'm a hooponopono practition, and I use it a lot with my clients for inner child healing. I know that you are also deeply interested in the wisdom of the little kid within each of us. From your perspective, how do you see the role of reconnecting with that inner child in your journey of self discovery and healing?

Vicki Abadesco: 00:17:22

Yeah, I mean, I think that's the that's the work in so many ways, right? When we talk about different things, like creating a document with all right? How do we be in action? Be in action in some ways. What keeps us from being in action in some ways, right? And a lot of it is a thread back to when we were back on that playground, right? It's like, oh, the first time that maybe somebody told us you can't play with us, or, Hey, you're not good enough, or, Oh, I don't like you, right? So we get these kind of right again, wounds or hurts from our early childhood, and then our life gets shaped by that. And so in every time I'm working with adults, you know, it's like, it's really easy for me to, like, kind of just envision who they were out on the playground. And again, to me, it's all a playground. If you're 515, 50, 100 it's all a playground. And so when I just think about, okay, right, how do we nurture that little kid within us? How do we go back? And I think that's one of the reasons people really love the work that we do. Because so many adults say, I wish I had this when I was a kid, and then I usually say, what did your little kid need from the adults in your life? And that opens a floodgate. I needed an adult to listen. I really just wanted to be heard. I wanted to be acknowledged. I wanted to be recognized. So I think some of these core hurts, these kind of universal hurts, I don't belong. Nobody likes me, right? I don't fit in. I'm an outcast. I think these very right common themes that we have, right? And a lot of people have this, it's like, again, these kind of universal kind of hurts, and we think that they're our own, and they're not right. It's like, oh, every kid has some sense. Every adult has some sense, right? I don't fit in. I belong. I'm with, you know, the, you know, outcast, or the weirdos or, you know, and so the funny thing is, is we all are that, right? And then we ask the kids all the time, it's like, how is it possible that anyone's ever really lonely in our world? Right? Like you sit in this classroom of 30 kids, you're right next to each other, right? We're in, you know, we go to these buildings where, as adults, we're with tons of humans. I can sit on the bus and I'm surrounded by people, but yet, there's a trend that loneliness is on the rise. How is that possible? Okay, so if our little kids right, I think is in there, right, these stories that we carry again, that one we right, have had a challenge to transform in some way. So I'm always inviting the adults that I coach and that I work with, like, let's talk about what it was like for you on the playground. What are some of those stories that are still alive, that are still running your life, right? And because if you have a story of not belonging, but you're belonging in all kinds of places, right? Is it hard for you to feel how you belong? Because your story of how you don't belong is so much stronger, right? But that's what happens for kids, because that trauma is big, all right? And so if you're a little kid, and like, for me, it's like, you know, I was really a little tiny kid, and at five years old, at a my Mommy would always loom over me. So again, as a kid, I don't have the skills to, you know, shift my perspective. I don't have the skills to get like, oh, all I get is, oh, these big feelings are happening. I get flooded from them, both within myself and whatever adult is looming over me, right? And then that's what I take with me, right? So the feelings and always feel overwhelming, because that was my experience as a child. So even when I grow my capacity as an adult, sometimes if something happens, I can feel overwhelmed, but I'm like, oh, where does that come from? Oh, it comes from my little kid who was overwhelmed. I am an adult. Am not overwhelmed, right? But that's where it gets tricky, right? And so, but I will say that, you know, to me, it's like, oh, what do we need? What did I need? Then, tenderness, care, attention, and those are the same things we can give ourselves right to nurture that little kid within us.

Ipek Williamson: 00:22:23

Lovely, lovely way of expressing that. Thank you. So now I want to ask you about the upcoming Arizona event that we are all going in January of 2025 you are organizing a section for youth speakers, and your organization will be the beneficiary for the event, and hopefully there will be lots and lots of donations made. How does it feel to be recognized in this way, and what do you hope to achieve with the youth involvement at the event?

Vicki Abadesco: 00:23:05

Yeah, well, first, I mean, it's an incredible, incredible honor. And, yeah, I mean, when I was at the event last year and I saw, you know, the beautiful organization that was a beneficiary last year, get, you know, popped in my mind, like, wow, what would it take for a soul shop to be the beneficiary for the next one? And again, right in our community here, right? It's like a thought becomes a possibility, then you ask a question, and then something happens. And so I asked the question, and something happened. And so I am just, I'm overjoyed, and I feel, really, I feel Judy's passion for what we created last year. And so when we thought, think about, okay, we, you know, supported an organization that stops, you know, human trafficking. And what an incredible, incredible cause that all of us obviously really stood and stand behind. And so when I asked Judy about, you know, why soul shop, you know, her response was like, yeah, what we want is, we want to grow the next generation of students who will be the ones who are out there doing the rescuing, right? That's what we want our investment to be, and we want to invest into the next generation of leaders and so, so it made sense, it made sense. And I again, just feel I'm so grateful, and I feel really, really honored, and I'm also really honored that she really recognizes the power of youth voices. And so we will have one section where we're going to have a handful of different youth speakers. And part of that is, again, I think what we've been talking about, which is, oh, I say something, you see the reflection in me, what happens when we see a young. Person up there. How do we see ourselves? I think at any time we see a young person on stage being powerful and vocal and free and themselves. I think many of us have a longing of, Oh yeah, that was me, or that could have been me, or I wish that were me, or I didn't have the opportunity for that part of me to show up as a kid. And so what's possible in our own healing by being able to watch young people in their power, in their agency, in their sovereignty, in ways that I know I wasn't when I was seven or eight or 12 or 20, right? And so we get the gift of young people teaching, teaching us all right, and sharing their wisdom with us. And I really love how our community is just so dialed in with like, where's our best listening? How do we listen? How do we bring right speakers alive because of our listening. And so for us to even be present to, where do we turn off when children are speaking? Because how did adults turn us off when we were speaking, right? And so that beautiful cycle where we get to check ourselves, where we get to notice for ourselves, right? What do we think about youth speakers, our own places where judgment might seep in. So I think it's a super beautiful gift that we all get to have and experience, and I'm so glad to be able to experience with everyone who's going to be there. Well,

Ipek Williamson: 00:26:37

I can't wait. I'm counting days and hours and minutes. But let me tell you what I feel when I see young people sharing beautiful wisdom is it gives me hope. It gives me hope for the future of humanity, yes, and the ultimate coach community, the being moment, and especially the second book that Amy wrote, The Ultimate coach concentrated that is really directed to them, is so exciting. And having your nonprofits being the beneficiary of the event is so so beautiful, because I so believe in the next generation, the young generation and but they always need our guidance, the direction that we will give them, and this is a way of supporting that direction that you and your organization is providing for them. So I am so happy that this is happening. Yeah. Me, too.

Vicki Abadesco: 00:27:49

Thanks.

Ipek Williamson: 00:27:49

So something that I thought to ask you, in today's world, young people face quite unique challenges like it with every generation, the challenges are changing, especially last few decades with social media and the changing landscape of connection and obviously COVID impacted that too. So what advice do you give young people on navigating these challenges while staying true to themselves?

Vicki Abadesco: 00:28:25

Yeah, that's a tough question. I mean, I think there's so many you know, like, I think as adults, even that question, right? Like, what tools can we use? What do we have that's authentic to ourselves? And one of the things that we use, actually, you can see this poster behind me, so there's, yeah, we really teach kids about checking in, and we use a metaphor of an emotional balloon, and that we all have an emotional balloon that we put feelings we don't know what to do with. And so I think as little kids, right, they kind of sneak feelings in there, right? They don't know. Like, I don't I feel scared about something. Let me just put it in my balloon, right? Or what's happening in the world. So that kind of confusion. Also, they just put in the world because their balloon. So then that balloon is kind of gets bigger, right? We keep putting things in there that we don't know. Like, oh, I'm afraid. I feel anxious stress. Parents are fighting. There's one parent at home, someone's stressed, right? And kids, again, don't, don't have the language to talk about some of these things. And that's all part of the work that we do is really to help them have those words so they can say, I feel scared. I don't know what's happening and it, it's, it's scary. I feel scared. And so you know, for us, it's always about, how do you check your balloon? How do you understand your balloon? Enough so that you know. Know that you're what we call emptying your balloon in a responsible way, versus leaking your balloon, which is hurting other people or yourself. And so when kids understand these two things, am I leaking my balloon? Am I emptying my balloon? Let me check in with my balloon. So that particular tool, I think, really just helps kids to understand that also, it's about their balloon, it's not about them. So then kids could say, oh, I have these things in my balloon. What's in your balloon? Oh, I have these things in my balloon, versus Oh, you're this, you're afraid, you're scared, you're frustrated, you're depressed. So it's like we talk about what's in our balloon. So be able to have this particular distinction, then moves kids to then ask for what they need. So we talk about feelings right, understanding what our feelings are and what we're feeling. But then what do we really need? And again, we talk about the power of language. It's not what we don't need. I need you to stop doing that. I need him to stop doing that. I don't want to do that. It's really the power of language. I need a hug. I need respect. I need some quiet time. I need someone to talk to. I need someone to listen so to teach kids how to make a powerful request in that way so they can get their meat right. One of the reasons this isolation and COVID has been so hard is because they haven't been able to practice those things, right? So when we're on the playground and we're running around and I bump into you and you get mad at me, right? I get to stop. I get to stop, I get to make a sincere apology, and there's connection inside of that. So when we get isolated and we're not socializing, then we start to miss some of those tools. So then we start to feel lonely, and then we don't know what to do with our loneliness. Then we feel scared to ask somebody, will you be my friend? And so I think that again, right, this epidemic that we're having about loneliness is again, because, right, we get scared we don't know how to communicate. And so for us, right, it's like we're always wanting to be able to give these tools to the kids so that they can ask for the thing that they need, and for us as adults to listen to that wisdom when they tell us

Ipek Williamson: 00:32:45

It's so beautiful, so you are giving them so many tools for them to be able to express themselves, articulate their emotions, get to notice their emotions again, by using that balloon metaphor, you are distancing the being from the emotions. Those emotions are not them, right? Yes. Oh, beautiful. I love that. But I have another question that I need to ask you so you have a really fascinating background as a fellow for the Dalai Lama Center for Ethics and transformative values at MIT. It is huge. And how has that experience influenced your perspective on empathy education, or your work with soul shop,

Vicki Abadesco: 00:33:48

Yeah, we have a picture of the His Holiness, the Dalai Lama, with one of our tools called the peace path. And you, I mean, I think, to be recognized in that sort of way where people see the power of a particular tool, right? And part of it is like anybody could walk the peace path. If you and I are having a conflict, we can get on the peace path, which is really just literally, we stencil this path on the playgrounds. We have portable paths, and it's just a way, again, for two people to work through a conflict, and so to have something that's embodied and active and restorative, and again, supports people with language to share. And so for me, it's like, you know, that particular tool, and again, that was all part of this, you know, very special honor was them really realizing how powerful this peace path is, and so again, to be able to have something so practical that both kids and adults can use to really step towards peace by every state. Meant that we make to move us towards, again, repairing something reconciling in particular kinds of ways, and again, just really being able to use the power of our language to bring people together, because it's, you know, how do you have a world where you know, can everybody win?

Ipek Williamson: 00:35:20

So beautiful. Now we are coming to my signature question that I ask everyone, yeah, yeah. So which one of the questions in the before you begin part or the back cover part of the ultimate coach book resonates with you most at this point in your life, and why?

Vicki Abadesco: 00:35:43

Yeah, thanks for asking this question. My one of my favorite questions that moves me every time I read it, every time we read the book, right it is, who would I need to be to live the most extraordinary life I can live? And what's interesting when I think about that question, and I think we were talking about, right, like, our own process, how do we, how do we continue, over and over again, to heal that little kid inside of us? And, you know, when I was very little, I would like stare in the mirror and be like, you know, was so curious about, who am I? Who am I? What is what is happening here? And maybe those questions came up because of the chaos and violence that was happening in my home, in a way for me to try to understand that there was something other than what was happening like this cannot be life. And so when I read that particular question, I think that was probably the question I might have been asking myself when I was five years old, in the situation that I didn't have control over. And you know, the interesting thing is, you know, in that situation, by the time I was 10, I was pretty suicidal, like I wanted out. How do I get out of this craziness? How do I Why am I even here? So even for a 10 year old, nine year old, to really be questioning, why are we here? There's got to be something better than this. All right, are questions that many of us have probably asked ourselves throughout our entire lives. So when I think about this question, Who do I need to be to live the most extraordinary life I can live, I think about that five year old, and I think about how scared she was and how timid she was and how, but she just wanted to be invisible. Don't look at me. Don't think about me. I'm gonna stay out of the way. And right? And if you would have told that little five year old that she would grow up to do this and to be all of this, she would have thought you were crazy. Like no way, no way. So I think every time I read that question, it moves me, because I think it moves her the five year old.

Ipek Williamson: 00:38:09

No, oh, I love that five year, five year old in you. Well, I'm gonna ask you three rapid fire questions. Now the first one, if you could instantly master one skill, what would it be?

Vicki Abadesco: 00:38:31

Yeah, staying perfectly present to what's occurring in this moment. Ooh,

Ipek Williamson: 00:38:36

that's beautiful. Okay, if you could instantly change one thing about the current education system. What would it be?

Vicki Abadesco: 00:38:48

Yeah, yeah, to change it so so that it really considers every child and their specific needs.

Ipek Williamson: 00:38:56

That's so sweet. And the third one, we already know that everyone should read your free to be book Vicky and also the ultimate coach book. But other than those two, what is one book that you believe everyone should read at least once in their lifetime?

Vicki Abadesco: 00:39:15

Yeah, the power of now

Ipek Williamson: 00:39:19

A cat. Totally. Yes, it's a beautiful, powerful book,

Vicki Abadesco: 00:39:23

Really.

Ipek Williamson: 00:39:24

Okay. Thank you so Vicky. I can't say how happy I am to have you with me, and I can't say how excited I am that soul shop will be the focus of the ultimate coach event in Arizona. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and heart with us today, your work with soul shop and your dedication to creating a world rooted in empathy and understanding our soul. Inspiring for those of you listening, if Vicky's message resonated with you, and I encourage you to check out her book free to be untold stories of going beyond bullying and explore the transformative work she's doing through soul shop, we will have links to her resources and website in the Episode Notes. Vicky, before we close, is there any final message or piece of advice you'd like to leave with our listeners?

Vicki Abadesco: 00:40:34

First off, I'll say epic. Thank you so much for just your your stand for this, your listening, your questions, the space that you hold is is beautiful. So thank you, and I know that every person who's been in this position has been held by you, and everybody who listens is held by you. So thank you for your incredible generosity and your kindness and your thoughtfulness in this process. Yeah. And then the other thing I would just say is I love that we brought in all of our little kids into this conversation, and so I would just invite everybody to continue to nurture that little one in you as best you can. And again, what are ways that you weren't listened to? Wanted to be listened to, wanted to be seen, wanted to be heard. And give that to your little kid. Give that to your little kid in ways that maybe the adults in your life didn't or couldn't.

Ipek Williamson: 00:41:37

So beautiful. Thank you so much. And they I appreciate everything you said about me, and thank you so much, and I'll see you in Arizona.

Vicki Abadesco: 00:41:46

See you there. See everybody. Thank you. Bye.

Unknown: 00:41:52

Thank you for joining us today. If there's someone you know who could benefit from this conversation, please share this episode with them. Also check out our website, being movement.com, you'll find valuable resources and links to connect to an engaging and wonderfully supportive community. Together, we can inspire and support each other on the path to a greater understanding of being until next time, take care and be kind to yourself you.